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Trading Warfarin for natural anticoagulants?
Started by Ken
Posted: June 27, 2011 at 14:11
Has anyone here had the courage to substitute their Warfarin prescription with fish oil or nattokinase, or any other natural blood anticoagulants with success? The only way to see if you don't get another blood clot is to actually quit taking the Warfarin and start on the natural thinners. And I suppose that if your calf starts to swell or hurt you can have 5 days worth of Lovenox immediately available by your side for your rescue. My hemotologist says "that's like playing Russian Roulette". I've tried going off Warfarin once albeit with no change in lifestyle and no blood thinners and I got a new blood clot in about 10 days. My calf started to swell and hurt, but I noticed it right away, verified it with the Ultrasound and immediately went to Lovenox and Warfarin. Now I'm thinking about quitting the Warfarin again, this time with lifestyle changes (more exercise and moving) and natural blood thinners. It didn't seem particulary risky last time I quit taking the Warfarin. Does anyone here think I'm nuts or would you say it is a good risk/reward? The reward being to rid myself of the Warfarin!
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Reply #1 by Sharon R
Posted: June 28, 2011
I think you're nuts (in a friendly way :>)!

If you clotted in just 10 days last time you must have a pretty brutal clotting disorder. You are playing with fire and there is a good chance you will get burned my friend. Are you willing to live thru the consequences...ie, Major stroke, heart attack or death. Is it really THAT bad on Warfarin? Guess maybe I'm lucky because it just isn't that big of deal to me.

Good luck and if I don't see you around on here I'll know you tried and failed - (said with encouraging "love"...don't do it!).
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Reply #2 by Bob Anderson
Posted: June 29, 2011 at 20:54
Ken -

Actually, there is a natural treatment that is very effective, inexpensive and has no real unpleasant side effects. Garlic is probably the best of all foods at inhibiting platelet aggregation; that is, preventing blood clots from forming.

People who eat garlic every day develop a natural ability to inhibit the formation of blood clots as long as the garlic is in their systems. When they quit eating the garlic, it takes a few days for the effects to wear off and then the blood clots can form again.

If one is taking Warfarin or any other anticoagulant, it is wise to inform your doctor you are eating garlic and that your prescription may need to be adjusted downward some. Same thing if you are taking garlic pills. Most doctors don't really understand how garlic works because herbal medicine is not taught in med school.

Garlic is not approved by the FDA for use in treating and condition so doctors are not allowed to recommend it, at least, in the USA so people are on their own to learn about it and decide for themselves whether to try it or not.

Only natural non-irradiated garlic has health benefits. Some garlics in the supermarkets have been irradiated to keep them from sprouting so they can set on the store shelf longer but the radiation kills the enzyme that triggers the processes that result in the health benefits so irradiated garlic has no health benefits.

Fortunately, there is a way to tell whether garlic has been irradiated. Every clove of every natural bulb of garlic has a little growing sprout at its core, growing up through a sheath from its rootplate - that's how garlic reproduces itself. Remove any clove from a bulb and cut it open and look for a little sprout growing in the deep inner core of the clove . If you find one, you have good garlic. If there is no sprout but only an empty sheath or mush, then the garlic has been irradiated and has no health benefits.

My own story is that I eat a lot of garlic and I have for the last 20 years. I ate foolishly and wound up with a 95% blockage of my coronary artery but my blood flowed smoothly through it. Then I stopped eating garlic and about 7-10 days later had a heart attach because a clot had formed and lodged right there at that 95% constriction. That was when it was discovered that I had a 95% blockage. A baloon angioplasty and stent later and I am fine.

My point here is that while eating garlic I had lived a productive life as a ranch hand on a cattle ranch and the garlic was so effective that I could remain productive even with a 95% blockage. That's results. That was 11 years ago and to this day I am on no medications, just eat garlic, raw or cooked, except roasted whole. Garlic has to be crushed or chopped to have health benefits so whole cooked cloves have no health benefits.

You asked for an alternative that does not have Warfarin's side effects, well, look no futher than Landlaady Nature's own underground pharmacy, the humble garlic bulb.

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Reply #3 by Dharma
Posted: June 30, 2011 at 13:01
Below is a link to some interesting examples of how nattokinase can be useful in keeping the blood thinned naturally. My naturopath also recommended nattokinase on a daily bases even though I am on lovenox injections. I am not recommending this to anyone however I did start on nattokinase 3 days ago along with the lovenox and will post any results I experience.

http://www.springboard4health.com/notebook/nutrients_natto_case_history.html

I really appreciate the garlic information...thank you Bob.

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Reply #4 by Ken
Posted: June 30, 2011 at 13:16
Bob, thanks for sharing your story with me:) Congratulations on your fortunate outcome. I've had garlic come up in my internet searches as an anticoagulant, but it seemed to me that nattokinase and fish oil were higher in populariy, so I just sort of put that on the "back shelf". I just googled it and I see that there a quite a few articles that I will read:

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=garlic+as+a+blood+thinner&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7aada0f82364381&biw=1024&bih=651

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=garlic+as+an+anticoagulant&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=7aada0f82364381&biw=1024&bih=651


Thanks for all the information, especially about the natural non-irradiated vs. the irradiated garlic. I have printed out your post. It's amazing in this day and age that there is no hemotologist that will prescribe natural anticoagulants. There is something seriously wrong here if they can be substituted and they work as a substitute. It would be nice if there was a website full dedicated to natural anticoagulants with clinical trial information available. Why not? Some work needs to get done to get some people with no PE's (just calf DVT) and get them to sign off on natural remedy clinical trials. If there were clinical trials performed on these natural remedies with success, people could rid themselves of these risky and undesirable anticoagulant drugs once and for all with confidence! You can't get rich selling garlic, hence no interest by the pharmaceutical/medical community.

By the way Bob, you didn't mention if you were on Warfarin or not, and then quit it for the garlic? If you got a clot they must have put you on some type of anticoagulant drug? Did you quit the anticoagulant drug that you were prescribed in favor of garlic?
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Reply #5 by Bob Anderson
Posted: July 1, 2011 at 01:57
Ken -

I never did get the prescription filled. Since garlic had done such a good job of allowing me to function normally as a ranch hand I decided to stay with it.

Garlic is such a good clot inhibitor that surgeons warn patients to discontinue garlic usage 7-10 days before surgery to minimize the danger of hemorrhage. Hemophiliacs are advised against eating garlic for that same reason.

I'm a pretty ordinary person but I have an extraordinary amount of information about garlic. I am in the garlic business and I have a fairly good grasp of its chemistry and how it works in the human body.

Garlic can do some pretty fantastic things; for example, crushed raw garlic kills all bacteria on contact, including MRSA and no bacteria, including MRSA can become resistant to the allicin in crushed raw natural garlic like it has the antibiotics because it kills in a different way.

Long soaks in garlic water have greatly helped some MRSA patients completely cure their MRSA infections. Maybe it could help DVT patients as well since the garlic bath admits a lot of garlic compounds into the body right through the skin like a giant transdermal patch.

If anyone has any interest, you can check out the MRSA forum, I have been posting over there for 18 months and there is a great deal of information about garlic and its antimicrobial properties.

There are two things that garlic is really good at and they are killing bacteria and preventing blood clots from forming. They are excellent as an anti-aggretory because they really do work and without any unpleasant side effects although it does give the user garlic breath. Since eating garlic makes one feel better you might notice that most people with garlic breath are grinning.

I'm not a doctor and I cannot give anyone any medical advice and I certainly would not tell anyone not to follow doctors' orders but the more you know, the better decisions you can make. It is advisable to discuss lowering your prescription level to adjust for the added protection of the garlic.

Don't expect your doctors to know much about garlic since herbal medicine is not taught in med school, pharmaceutical prescriptions are taught.

Doctors are not allowed to recommend garlic because it is not on the FDA's list of treatent protocols. Patients are completely on their own when it comes to garlic whether eating it or bathing in garlic water.

As mentioned above, surgeons are aware of garlic's anti-aggregatory properties and that should tell you that they think it works for that purpose.



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Reply #6 by Carol
Posted: February 1, 2012 at 21:02
Bob,
Have you found garlic supplements to be as effective as fresh garlic? What about the "odorless" garlic supplements? I've been searching for a natural alternative to Coumadin since my mitral valve was replaced with a mechanical one. Any info you can offer is greatly appreciated and will be added to my "stockpile" for consideration. Thanks!
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Reply #7 by Sylvia Scott
Posted: October 22, 2012 at 21:54
But how much garlic do we need everyday? 1Crushed clove or what?
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Reply #8 by Annie
Posted: October 23, 2012 at 01:23
As much as I would adore being off anticoagulants, I have gotten clots on full
dose lovenox and have now been changed to extremely large does of arixtra, so
the thought of this terrifies me. BUT I am interested in this and will follow this.
Best wishes to you all.
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Re: Trading Warfarin for natural anticoagulants?
Reply #9 by Ken - following up
Posted: October 24, 2012 at 03:56
I've accepted the fact that I'm going to have to be on Warfarin the rest of my life. The
blood clot I got screwed up my lower right leg (calf) up so bad there are veins popping
out everywhere when I stand up. I take 2 calcium tablets daily to keep the bones
strong. I am a cycling maniac now (20 miles and 4,000' 4 days a week on the MTB). As
long as I don't hit my head hard I'll be ok (something I've managed to avoid). I blame
the r. calf blood clot that I got on sitting at a computer too much. So now I'm off riding
my bike almost every morning and nothing further seems to be going wrong with me.

In the words of Plato: "Lack of activity destroys the good condition of every human
being, while movement and methodical physical exercise save and preserve it". Heart
disease, Lupus, cancer, acid reflux, diabetes, etc. all consequences be a sedentary
lifestyle.
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Reply #10 by Annie
Posted: October 24, 2012 at 05:54
While I agree movement us essential for a healthier life, unfortunately not all
diseases are consequences of lifestyle. Sometimes genetics just are not on your
side. All of my DVTs and PEs have been caused from a genetic heart defect, and
the repair of it , I was born with. I have always been and continue to be very
active. I just suffer now to enjoy my sports and activities.
Just as I am sure many otherwise active, healthy people have gotten some type of
disease.
Like I said though, I agree that the key to staying healthier is movement
Best wishes to all.
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Reply #11 by Claire
Posted: October 24, 2012 at 20:32
I came off a three month treatment of warfarin nearly 2 months ago. In the meantime I have been diagnosed with Factor 5 Leiden homozygous.

I have not been put back onto warfarin and I now plan to eat differently. I suggested fish oils to my doctor but he was not convinced. I then mentioned it to a friend who is a specialist dietician at my local hospital. She advised me that to get the best benefit of this is too eat more oily fish rather than take supplements. So now I have started eating three lots of oily fish a week. Salmon, tuna, mackeral, sardines etc with roasted vegetables in olive oil and garlic. Tuna steak is the best not canned tuna as all the natural oils in canned tuna are taken away in the canning process but canned salmon is fine.
I also drink a lot more water now
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Reply #12 by Debbie Waynt
Posted: November 8, 2012 at 08:53
How much garlic do you need to eat and are garlic supplements useful or both in combination. Also for a bath in garlic how do you apply the garlic to the bath, in a boiled solution or how should the garlic be prepared for addition to bath water?
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Reply #13 by Chris
Posted: November 8, 2012 at 12:31
I agree oily fish, rather than fish supplements seem to be the way to go. I
personally have had very good luck with nattokinase. I have a small ultrasound
machine at home and I have literally watched over a period of a few weeks as a,
new minor, clot disappeared while taking the Natto. I have also found that when I
take Natto the low flow aches and pains that come up now and then disappear
after a few days on it. Nattokinase is not risk free, it really does affect your
anticoagulants on levels and dissolves fibrin. Since its not a approved drug, you
can't get an approved formulation. Meaning you're taking a risk of stroke or worse
if you take it and you should talk with your doctor. And probably never take it as
something bad could happen and you could blame me. However for me, I use it
fairly frequently and it's improved my quality of life along with the other things I
do. (walking, compression boots, diet, regular anti-coagulants)

Best
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Reply #14 by mary
Posted: May 21, 2013 at 16:05
does warfarin make your hair fall out


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Reply #15 by Karen
Posted: May 24, 2013
Ĺ
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Reply #16 by RetiredNavy02
Posted: May 24, 2013 at 09:20
You are always going to have some people who believe certain supplements or vitamins work but in truth, they will to some degree but not to the degree where I would want to risk my life on having a third DVT/PE. For patients who had provoked clots (trauma, pregnancy, oral B/C, surgery) they may benefit from taking a form of supplement or vitamin following their anticoaguation treatment. For those with unprovoked clots (Idiopathic) or a clotting disorder, I suspect none of these would work to the degree of what I would call a preventative treatment. The following article was written by one of the leading blood clot specialist in the U.S. along with the Program Direct at Clot Connect:

http://patientblog.clotconnect.org/2013/05/01/natural-supplements/


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Reply #17 by Kathryn
Posted: June 10, 2013 at 15:17
I have been on Coumadin for 13 years after a mild stroke. I had no loss of abilities-the stroke was purely bad lifestyle drinking etc and hyperthyroid. I am giving it up! No doctor will even talk to me about not taking I suspect for fear of lawsuits. They have even bullied me with regards to getting regular blood tests. When I really give this serious thought, it is all money driven...if the medical profession cared so much about each patient why wouldn't they try to assist with more proactive solutions for 'health'! All that said-this forum has helped me know what symptoms to look for as a further comment when I read coumadins side effects I have more than half and have had for the last 5 years or so and not one doctor would comment on it-I know the risks. There is a homeopathy remedy for warfarin and then onto garlic etc-in Canada we can't get nattokinease.
Yes some will say crazy-that's ok...maybe my kidneys will thank me. Did you know Coumadin started years ago for cows=the whole story don't know but it's original natural source is red clover.
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Reply #18 by Greg
Posted: July 31, 2013 at 10:29
Actually, a fungus on red clover was the original source of Warfarin. A farmer in Wisconsin brought a cow to the UW that had bled out from the nose and he wanted to know what was happening to his animals. The researcher assigned his patent to the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation and that's where the name came from. I've just started looking at the alternatives as I've been on it for six years for a clot and PE that hasn't been determined to be idiopathic yet no doctor will recommend removing me from it. The rationale being that it was a "saddle embolism" and since people don't generally survive that (according to the team of doctors I met with) they recommended lifetime Warfarin. It has always seemed like CYA to me, and given the side effects of the drug I'm looking for something else. Thanks for the ideas.
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Reply #19 by Greg
Posted: July 31, 2013 at 10:32
Actually, a fungus on red clover was the original source of Warfarin. A farmer in Wisconsin brought a cow to the UW that had bled out from the nose and he wanted to know what was happening to his animals. The researcher assigned his patent to the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation and that's where the name came from. I've just started looking at the alternatives as I've been on it for six years for a clot and PE that hasn't been determined to be idiopathic yet no doctor will recommend removing me from it. The rationale being that it was a "saddle embolism" and since people don't generally survive that (according to the team of doctors I met with) they recommended lifetime Warfarin. It has always seemed like CYA to me, and given the side effects of the drug I'm looking for something else. Thanks for the ideas.
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